-3

I'm wondering if the following sentence is grammatically correct.

I've never seen a dumbest girl like this

A grammar book says the superlative should have the article "the". However, I found the above sentence on the internet which seems to be written by a native English speaker.

Other examples:

Dawnman Planet by Mack Reynolds https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=bX85CeGtwqgC&pg=PT8&dq=%22a+slightest%22&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP97Lz0sPLAhXFE5QKHRFtBOg4KBDoAQgaMAA#v=onepage&q=%22a%20slightest%22&f=false

The galaxy is immense, and thus far, we have but touched a slightest segment of it.

Mack Reynolds was an American science fiction writer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mack_Reynolds

A Mother's Secret by Scarlet Wilson https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=GF51AgAAQBAJ&pg=PT38&dq=%22a+slightest%22&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTuvOFjMTLAhVjKKYKHRJJCno4HhDoAQgiMAE#v=onepage&q=%22a%20slightest%22&f=false

"So what do you think?" He spun around in his chair until he faced her, leaning forward, his elbows on his knees, giving her a slightest glimpse of his dark curled hair at the base of his throat.

About the author http://www.scarlet-wilson.com/1_3_Bio.html

Ulverton by Adam Thorpe

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=kHh3GF5-JQ8C&pg=PA78&dq=%22a+slightest%22&hl=ja&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCk4y4zsTLAhWDVZQKHYWqAXg4KBDoAQhYMAg#v=onepage&q=%22a%20slightest%22&f=false

This room grows so tedious and fusty. Because I have a slightest of fevers I am to be confined a further week upon the end of the month.

About the author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Thorpe

Edit (March 20, 2016) I have posted a similar question here: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/314773/is-a-slightest-glimpse-gramatically-incorrect

Community
  • 1
Makoto Kato
  • 1,966
  • 5
  • 21
  • 30
  • 5
    If you did see that from a native speaker, he was either being very careless at the time, or he's not very literate. It's syntactic garbage, regardless of whether it uses the definite or the indefinite article. – FumbleFingers Mar 15 '16 at 17:20
  • 5
    Yeah, my guess would be they misspelled "I've never seen a dumbass girl like this". –  Mar 15 '16 at 17:25
  • @FumbleFingers Please see the edit. Mack Reynolds was an American science fiction writer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mack_Reynolds – Makoto Kato Mar 15 '16 at 21:43
  • 1
    The second example is not much better. That is an *extremely* bizarrely worded sentence. I would guess it's for poetic effect in this case; it's definitely not fit for conversational use. – Era Mar 15 '16 at 21:54
  • 4
    @Makoto: Are you trying to prove to me that "competent" writers have used a form I'm assuring you is ***not*** idiomatically acceptable? I'm not going to waste time dealing with each of the additional examples you've added since my first comment, but the first one (Mack Reynolds) is a Google Books **OCR ERROR.** [Here's the 1965 original](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22touched+the+slightest+segment%22) where it's *we have but touched **the** slightest segment*. That's just normal English, but ***a*** there would be "unusual", to say the least. – FumbleFingers Mar 16 '16 at 13:08
  • 1
    Do not mistake something appearing in print with it being correct. There are plenty of "a slightest" appearing in books, but that doesn't mean it is good writing. It just means it is a common mistake. When I look over the books where it appears, I see a lot of bad editing, with the exception of `[the Court] expressly rejected a "slightest presence" standard of constitutional nexus'` in Global Perspectives on E-Commerce Taxation Law, by Dr Subhajit Basu. – ColleenV Mar 16 '16 at 13:34
  • @FumbleFingers I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just wondering if those examples are grammatical errors or not. – Makoto Kato Mar 17 '16 at 05:59
  • @ColleenV Could you give us some supporting evidences of your claim that those examples are **all** common mistakes? – Makoto Kato Mar 17 '16 at 06:02
  • @ColleenV: I wouldn't say it's *that* common (if it *were* common, it wouldn't be so glaringly obvious to us that it's "unusual"). Google Books has 9 instances of [*was **a** slightest*](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22was+a+slightest%22), against a claimed 1,560,000 results for [*was **the** slightest*](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22was+the+slightest%22). Makoto Kato - define "error". We're not talking about a "grammatical rule" here - it's just a matter of an ***extremely strong*** established idiomatic preference. – FumbleFingers Mar 17 '16 at 12:52
  • @FumbleFingers I don't think it's a particularly rare mistake though because of the way slightest is used "I don't care the slightest bit" is easy to misspeak as "I don't care a slightest bit". I think it might get written often and corrected because it would jump out at an editor. And no Makoto, I'm not going to argue with you about something that isn't controversial at all among native English speakers. We use the definite article with superlatives in most cases. You shouldn't assume that every sentence in every work of fiction is perfectly written. – ColleenV Mar 17 '16 at 13:15
  • @ColleenV: It's true we ***do*** use the definite article with superlatives in most cases, but noting [*was **a** most handsome*](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22was+a+most+handsome%22):1,760 hits, and [*was **the** most handsome*](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22was+the+most+handsome%22):33,300 hits, I think we'd have to say that if there's a "rule" here, it's not consistently applied in *all* contexts. I can just about tolerate OP's 2nd (Wilson) cite, but not the others - though the 3rd may just be because the (fictional) writer isn't supposed to be very "literate". – FumbleFingers Mar 17 '16 at 13:27
  • 1
    @FumbleFingers Interesting. It seems like most is being used as an intensifier there and not a superlative. He was the handsomest boy. He was a most/very handsome boy, but he had a vile temper. – ColleenV Mar 17 '16 at 13:33
  • @ColleenV: Good point. I was being too literal in supposing ***most** = superlative*. In practice, as you say, it's often just an intensifier. – FumbleFingers Mar 17 '16 at 14:22
  • @FumbleFingers I'm asking whether those examples are **grammatically** correct or not. – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 10:43
  • @ColleenV "*And no Makoto, I'm not going to argue with you about something that isn't controversial at all among native English speakers. We use the definite article with superlatives in most cases.*" Please see my comment to JavaLatte: *It says: "You can even put a in front of a superlative when you intend the superlative to designate only a very high degree of something rather than the one item with the highest degree: The hermitage is a most curious piece of architecture."* – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 10:47
  • "a most something" is not a superlative as I mentioned when @FumbleFingers brought it up above. It's an intensifier. The way we can tell is because the definite article isn't used. Most is not always a superlative. – ColleenV Mar 18 '16 at 23:50
  • @ColleenV If "most" can be an intensifier, why can't "dumbest" be? – Makoto Kato Mar 19 '16 at 00:34

4 Answers4

7

Absolutely not. dumbest is a superlative. As you say, a superlative requires the not a in front of it. Plus, you can't use a superlative with like. There is no point in comparing a superlative with anything: it is the whatever-est.

For the sake of gender equality, I have replaced girl with guy in my examples :-)

It may well be mis-heard report of this sentence:

I have never seen a dumb-assed guy like this.

The correct way of saying it is:

I have never seen a guy as dumb as this.

JavaLatte
  • 57,432
  • 2
  • 72
  • 128
  • Please see the edit. I have added another example. – Makoto Kato Mar 15 '16 at 21:48
  • 4
    In my opinion, all of the additional examples you have quoted are grammatically incorrect. – JavaLatte Mar 16 '16 at 14:40
  • Could you give us some supporting evidences of your claim? – Makoto Kato Mar 17 '16 at 09:02
  • http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/46923/is-there-always-a-the-before-a-superlative-adjective – JavaLatte Mar 17 '16 at 16:27
  • It says: "You can even put a in front of a superlative when you intend the superlative to designate only a very high degree of something rather than the one item with the highest degree: *The hermitage is a most curious piece of architecture.*" – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 10:30
  • @MakotoKato, "most" has several meanings, one of which is as a simple adverb of degree, with a meaning of "very". IMHO it's not an exception to the rule about superlatives: it's a perfectly normal use of a simple adverb. – JavaLatte Mar 18 '16 at 12:23
  • So you are saying that "The hermitage is a most curious piece of architecture" is grammatically correct, but "Because I have a slightest of fevers" is not. Could you give us some supporting evidences of your claim if that is the case? – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 13:16
  • Here is the definotion of most: note item 10, which gets a separate entry and isn't called a superlative. 'Most:adv 8. the most used to form the superlative of some adjectives and adverbs: the most beautiful daughter of all. 9. the superlative of much: people welcome a drink most after work. 10. (intensifier): a most absurd story." – JavaLatte Mar 18 '16 at 15:32
  • Now compare to this link for slightest, which doesn't have **any** adverbal sense. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slightest – JavaLatte Mar 18 '16 at 15:36
  • Here is a quote from Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 2. "*Yet so far hath discretion fought with nature That we with **wisest** sorrow think on him, Together with remembrance of ourselves.*" Please note that "wisest" is used without the definite article. I think it is an intensifier of the adjective "wise". – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 18:59
  • If you check the link I sent you earlier, you will see that wisest sorrow is a noun superlative, which does not require a definite article. Here is the link again http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/46923/is-there-always-a-the-before-a-superlative-adjective – JavaLatte Mar 18 '16 at 19:08
  • The link says a noun superlative is a noun + a superlative like in the sentence "*The **person last** to use the bathroom is responsible for cleaning it up.*" So "wisest sorrow" is not a noun superlative. – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 21:01
2

No, it's not correct. However,

I've never seen the dumbest girl like this

is probably not what the author meant either.

What was probably meant was

I've never seen a girl this dumb.

Adam Martin
  • 121
  • 2
2

The sentence you ask about appears on a Ladduz Entertainment website, which is from India, where they speak Indian English and, like elsewhere, sometimes use very poor English. A blurb about Ladduz.in is filled with deviations from standard English, including the following:

ladduz.in is an India's top social media and articles provider...

Here, an India's is non-standard. Also, from the same site:

we are giving a available information about movies...

A available? (should be an available). A(n) information? Not in standard English: 'information' is a mass noun.

The sentence you ask about is part of the headline of a video in which at least two languages are used; thus, there is the possibility that the headline mixes two languages.

What is clear is that a with a superlative is rare. You found few instances, and the one by M Reynolds was shown to be spurious. That some other, rare instances exist do not show that it is standard.

However, it is possible to make the case that a construction along the lines of

"I've never seen a dumbest girl like this in Bangladore..."

(which is what the headline actually says) is correct. Say that there exits in Dehli a girl who is "the dumbest girl in Dehli". And there is in Calcutta "the dumbest girl in Calcutta." Well, one could say

We don't have a dumbest girl in Bangladore (because the girls are all smart here).

Just like one could say:

We don't have a rainiest day in the desert (because it never rains here).

Perhaps something like that was meant by the writer of the sentence you ask about. Or perhaps it's a mash of languages. Perhaps it's correct in Indian English. Perhaps it's a flat error with no justification. Also, since the video appears to say "dumb ass girl," perhaps the headline writer just got the word wrong.

As for the genuine (not spurious) uses of the indefinite article with a superlative, they are errors from the point of view of standard English. People are free to use English in any way they please, but that doesn't make it standard. On the issue of Standard English, you can google "Who decides what is standard English" and get plenty of results including the ELL question and answers to Who decides whether something is standard English or not?

Community
  • 1
Alan Carmack
  • 11,839
  • 2
  • 22
  • 52
  • Thanks. How do you think about the other examples? – Makoto Kato Mar 17 '16 at 05:43
  • They are errors from the point of view of standard English. – Alan Carmack Mar 17 '16 at 05:49
  • Could you give us some supporting evidences of your claim? – Makoto Kato Mar 17 '16 at 05:55
  • 1
    Yes, all the native English speakers here who have said they are errors. Standard English is what native speakers say it is. – Alan Carmack Mar 17 '16 at 06:28
  • But those people are also native English speakers. – Makoto Kato Mar 17 '16 at 07:55
  • The speakers of English of any given region or dialect decide what is standard for them. From the point of view of speakers of standard American English (and standard British English), these uses are nonstandard. Regarding a test of standard English (TOEFL, IELTS), they would be considered errors. People can use English any way they like, but for *standard usage* see [Who decides whether something is standard English or not?](http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/1464/who-decides-whether-something-is-standard-english-or-not)... – Alan Carmack Mar 17 '16 at 12:06
  • ...and and [the Wikipedia article on Standard English](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_English). – Alan Carmack Mar 17 '16 at 12:06
  • See also *[Standard English and Social Power](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/02/02/standard-english-and-social-power/)* from The Society Pages (it has a great example about SE and a test question) and *[What is Standard English?](http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/a/standardenglish.htm)* from about dot com. – Alan Carmack Mar 17 '16 at 12:15
  • @Makoto Kato: Bear in mind that there are actually very few "native speakers of English" in India - even among those who conduct their affairs in adult life almost exclusively in English. Genuine native Anglophones are probably massively outnumbered by people who mistakenly *think* they're native speakers simply because relatively speaking they're quite fluent, having used English since childhood (but not as their "mother tongue"). – FumbleFingers Mar 17 '16 at 13:31
  • ...Wikipedia says in the 2001 census just 226,449 people (0.022%) claimed to be native Anglophones, and given the associated status, I'd be pretty certain that figure will be significantly inflated by "wishful thinking". – FumbleFingers Mar 17 '16 at 13:39
  • @AlanCarmack Are you saying that the languages of Scarlet Wilson and Adam Thorpe are non-standard? – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 10:37
  • @FumbleFingers I think Scarlet Wilson and Adam Thorpe are not Indians. – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 10:39
  • 1
    @Makoto Kato: I never suggested otherwise. I was addressing your *But those people are also native English speakers* above, which I took to be a reference to Alan's point that your *first* cited example (by far the most "non-idiomatic") came from an IE publication which *in addition to featuring usages acceptable in Indian English* also contains many errors that wouldn't be acceptable to any true native Anglophone, Indian or otherwise. You seem to be preoccupied with *defending* an obviously (to native speakers) non-standard usage, rather than *learning* what is and isn't normal English. – FumbleFingers Mar 18 '16 at 13:17
  • @FumbleFingers Are you saying that the examples of Wilson and Thorpe are non-standard? Could you gives us some supporting evidences of your claim if that is the case? By the way, please don't place a space between Makoto and Kato in @ MakotoKato, otherwise I won't get a ping. – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 13:27
  • 1
    @Makoto Kato: (I've only ever cut&pasted your username "as is", so I don't follow that point). How many times do people have to assure you that your *first* example is ***totally ungrammatical,*** and your "supporting" examples are at best "non-standard"? Are you trying to learn, or to win an argument? – FumbleFingers Mar 18 '16 at 13:35
  • @AlanCarmack: Thanks for that info. Had I known about *Makoto (aka ivanscott)*, I wouldn't have needed to keep asking about OP's motivation for stringing this one out *ad nauseam.* – FumbleFingers Mar 18 '16 at 15:02
  • @FumbleFingers Here is a quote from Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 2. "*Yet so far hath discretion fought with nature That we with **wisest** sorrow think on him, Together with remembrance of ourselves.*" Please note that "wisest" is used without the definite article. I think it is an intensifier of the adjective "wise". – Makoto Kato Mar 18 '16 at 19:03
  • @FumbleFingers "*(I've only ever cut&pasted your username "as is", so I don't follow that point).*" You don't have to cut&paste my username. If you write @m, my username(without a space) will show up. All you need to do is just click on it. – Makoto Kato Mar 20 '16 at 11:23
  • @MakotoKato Re: the quote from Shakespeare, no one has said that we can't use a superlative "without the definite article"; we are saying that in the examples you ask about, using the superlative with the indefinite article is ungrammatical (as it usually is, except in rare occasions such as the example I gave in my answer). – Alan Carmack Mar 20 '16 at 12:35
  • @AlanCarmack Sheakespeare's "wisest sorrow" does not have the definite article "the" because "wisest" in this case is an intensifier rather than a superlative and it does not have the indefiniate article "a" because "sorrow" is uncountable. If the word "sorrow" was countable, it shoud be "a wisest sorrow". – Makoto Kato Mar 20 '16 at 22:26
  • So you an expert on article usage in Shakespeare's day? @MakotoKato And on count and mass nouns of Shakespeare's day? – Alan Carmack Mar 21 '16 at 00:46
  • @AlanCarmack If you read a Shakespeare's work, say, Hamlet, you can see that the very *basic* usage of definite and indefinite articles has not changed since Sheakespeare's time. – Makoto Kato Mar 21 '16 at 14:10
  • @MakotoKato No that's not the case. – Alan Carmack Mar 21 '16 at 16:23
  • Could you elaborate on that claim of yours? – Makoto Kato Mar 21 '16 at 17:06
  • No, I have no interest in continuing this dialog. You can do your own Internet research on Shakespeare's grammar, especially that of articles, as you like @MakotoKato – Alan Carmack Mar 21 '16 at 21:20
0

I've never seen a dumbest girl like this.

The logical problem here is that you are saying you've never seen this girl before, but you somehow already know she is the dumbest girl you've seen. How could you know if you never seen her before?

I've never seen a girl this dumb.

This is fine, you are saying this is the first time you've seen a girl at this level of dumbness.

This is the dumbest girl I've ever seen.

This is probably what you want to say. The is used before nouns to show that the speaker is referring to an instance that he/she has talked about or observed before. Since you observed this girl and her dumbness, and are talking about the same girl, you need the.

A would imply you haven't seen the girl before, therefore you can't say a dumbest because you could not know she is the dumbest unless you've observed that.

LawrenceC
  • 36,308
  • 24
  • 77